Don’t Let It Happen To You.
Much of what is revealed here was learned through telephone conversations, and unfortunately I have no proof of those conversations. When I have written proof of different aspects of this story, I will link to either the screenshot, Skype convo, etc. with a number at the end of a sentence. Wherever possible I have taken screenshots containing dates. These screenshots are factual proof of my story.
In January 2011, I was told by an online friend of mine that BIG Mike Kotzakolios from Incansoft (hereinafter simply referred to as Mike) wanted to talk to me. I had come out with my plugin, WP Amaz-One, on December 10th, 2010, and Incansoft was an affiliate for the product, selling in the five figures (and that was just their share). The success of that plugin is what prompted him to contact me, and he wanted to talk about becoming a partner within Incansoft. (Red Flag #1 – when my husband heard it was the owner of Incansoft that contacted me, he said “Isn’t that the company with all the software that sucks?”) (I had used ArticleBot and actually did an experiment, counting the number of submission sites that AB was supposed to be submitting to…and very few of them were even legitimate and therefore, very few articles “stuck”.)
In the beginning of January, 2011, Mike had Ken Leatherman contact me via Skype to let me know that he wanted to talk to me. (Red Flag #2 - why didn’t he just email me? He knew how to get ahold of me on Warrior Forum.) So, we started talking on Skype. What he had wanted, basically, were my ideas. He told me that he was impressed by the fact that I didn’t know anything about coding, but went out and found a developer to create WP Amaz-One, and became hugely successful with it. So the pitch was, I share my ideas with him, he develops them by doing all the coding, I market the finished product, and we split the profits 50/50. He told me over phone convos that he was bored with Incansoft and needed new, fresh ideas. WordPress plugins were a good fit for his company, but he revealed that he couldn’t demand the prices he felt plugins would be worth because Incansoft products generally sell for less than $20.
It was agreed that we’d do a couple of projects together before entering into any formal partnership, to see if we work well together. Mike said that when we became partners at Incansoft after these first initial projects, we’d be making $5000 A MONTH! (Red Flag #3 – we were already making $5000 a month…Mike needed a bigger carrot, but we held on. Don’t ask me why, because in hindsight, I have no freaking idea why we didn’t bail at the $5000 mark.)
Here is the Skype convo where he initially contacted me around January 7th or so, copied and pasted directly from Skype (since I can’t make a screenshot of Skype): 1 You can see on the 27th, we begin developing one idea of mine called iMarkeTree.
The next few weeks were basically talking about iMarkeTree, developing the basic framework, etc. At one point, we actually started advertising it a bit, but everything came to a halt when, towards the middle of February, we told him we were having a plugin developed by my former programmer who’d created WP Amaz-One. This was was to be called WP PayMe, and would be kind of a RAP for WordPress. Our idea was to implement immediate split payments (as opposed to a rotation based payment system, like RAP) between the product seller, affiliate and/or equity partner. We also wanted to have One-Time-Offers, link cloaking, pre-made editable templates…there were a lot of features on our “wanted” list! You can see on the 24th, Mike actually starts calling the plugin by name – PayMe. And we were supposed to launch it by the end of February, but problems kept cropping up. Luckily, I had a great promo towards the end of the month, and so financially, we were okay for February. (I’ve only been full-time in IM for a little less than a year, so we’re still living project-to-project, much like people who live paycheck-to-paycheck. I was also under the assumption due to things Mike had said in our convo’s that everything we did from this point forward would be done together, and that I should concentrate on PayMe.) Here are the February Skypes: 2
We didn’t end up launching by the end of February like we’d hoped. There were a lot of what I now can see were excuses, but that’s simply my opinion, of course. I now believe that Mike was not prepared to be able to code this plugin – he admitted he knew nothing about WordPress and this was a relatively complicated project integrating WordPress, PayPal’s Parallel Payments API, etc.
We trusted him so much that we took this project away from the original coder, and let Mike convince us that the original coder was a scammer who only wanted our money. In my heart, instinctively, I knew this was bullshit, but I was blinded by the fact that it was “BIG Mike” that wanted ME to work with HIM. I was way too impressed with myself. That was Red Flag #4.
So, we continue to work on PayMe. As different parts get completed, I take screenshots and begin creating the PayMe User Manual. 3 (The user manual was originally saved as a .docx doc, but since many people can’t view that, I re-saved it as a PDF so more people can view it. Here is a screenshot of the Properties of the original .docx file showing the date it was created and the last date it was edited. 4) We (my husband and I) talk to Mike nearly every single night on the phone (he even told me that he got some kind of special Skype package so that he could call me more often and it wouldn’t cost him much). There were many nights we were on the phone with him for two hours or more, not just working on the plugin, but becoming friends (or so I thought). He mentioned things about how he has an English as First Language school in Greece, and how everything (even Incansoft) is in his wife’s name. He told us that nothing is in his own name. He also talked about his partners at Incansoft – said John Rogers was an awful internet marketer, and wouldn’t be able to make a dollar if it weren’t for him. He talked about people that are supposed to be his friends, like Ken Leatherman, like they were shit on the bottom of his shoe. He attributed everyone’s success to himself and made it clear that he didn’t think much of any one of his partners. I didn’t agree nor disagree because at that time, I held both Ken and John in very high regard. (Need I say that the way he talked about these people was Red Flag #5?) (Also, compare the screenshots of Mike’s manual to my own.)
So, fast forward to the end of March. I haven’t been putting out any products but have been patiently waiting to launch PayMe. I’m just barely making due on the products I currently have on the market. Mike says that he estimates that PayMe will sell 1000 copies to his list of 12000, at $27. John Rogers also sends out two emails to their list, preselling it. 5 & 6 (Compare those emails with the email Incansoft sent out on April 21st: 7 Sounds like they’re advertising the same product, doesn’t it?) Half of that total is $13,500, so I’m pretty darn excited about it. I’m excited too because I’ve begun leaking some details about the product on Facebook and here and there, and the response is amazing! People really, really want and need this and the more I talk about it, the more excited everyone is getting about it! (I also need it for my own business – anyone who knows me knows that my ideas are born from the needs I have in my own business and that of my associates.)
I’m getting a little nervous at this point because we’ve been working on this since the middle of February, it’s still not done, and Mike keeps running into problems either with WordPress or PayPal’s API integration (Red Flag #6). But he keeps telling me we’re “this close” and so, I believe him. I even played around with a test post on Warrior Forum for the sales letter on March 29th. 8 Here’s the actual sales video from that sales letter: http://www.screencast.com/t/eoJCZJcA, which was created on March 29th: 9
On March 31st, we were supposed to finally start testing PayMe with live payments. I can’t even express how relieved I was to be this close to launching it because at this point we are seriously running out of money. (There was constant reassurance from Mike that we were “so close” to launching and that when we did, we’d all be swimming in money.) Also, we’re incredibly excited to see what we’ve been working so hard on actually do what it’s supposed to do! Normally, Mike would call us around 3 or 4PM our time and that time came and went. We waited for his phone call so anxiously because we’re at a pretty critical time. No phone call – and this was the first time in over two months that he’d skipped out on a meeting we had planned (most times these phone convo’s were initiated by Mike – check the Skype convos and you’ll see a lot of him saying “can you talk tonight”, so this was very out of character for him). I get on Skype and try to contact him, to no avail. I even asked Ken Leatherman if he’d heard from him. Nothing. We actually started to worry about his health because he’d been working so hard on this and was putting in some really long hours on it.
The next morning I woke up to a very nonchalont, flippant email basically stating “sorry, wife had other plans for me”. The utter lack of respect totally pissed me off, and I emailed him with sarcasm, and then calmed down. That’s when his tune changed entirely 10. After that, I kept trying to email him and Skype him – I apologized profusely (still couldn’t see him for what he was even after that) and literally begged him to talk to me. He blocked me on Skype, blocked my email…gave me no way at all to attempt to talk to him. As it states in the email, he did take my WP PayMe website as well as our PayMe test website off of his servers, and I lost everything, while he still had a copy of the working plugin. (Two things to note here…Red Flag #7 was when he insisted on having both of those websites on his web hosting instead of my own, stating that since he had a dedicated server and I only had a reseller plan, his server would be more secure, and faster. I didn’t have access to his server logins. Why did I make such a stupid mistake? Simply put, we trusted him. And Red Flag #8 was that it was very difficult for me to get him to give me a copy of the actual plugin. He only did so when I explained that I needed it to make screenshots of uploading the plugin to WordPress. Even so, he had encrypted the source code – and never gave me an unencrypted copy.)
I wasn’t going to let him screw up the partnership because of his ego so easily, so I created a new email address and emailed him from that (BigMikeFan@gmail.com, if you can believe that.) The response to that email shows Mike’s true colors. 11 So he is not only cutting me off as a partner, but he’s now going to take what we had worked on with PayMe and sell it under Incansoft’s name.
At this point, I’m in shock. I just can’t believe that he’s going to take my name off PayMe and put it out himself. I spend a day or two in shock, then pull myself together and get to work. Financially, we’re okay and that was the most important thing at the time.
Around this time, I had a few staunch supporters who invited me to join Earn $1K A Day. I’d been looking for a forum where I could network and after being so badly burned, just really needed a community that I could believe in. People I like and respect in IM warmly welcomed me there and so I joined. I made a few posts there introducing myself, etc. and then decided that I truly didn’t want anyone to go through what I’d been through with this particular JV, so I decide to post, without names, about my story to tell people simply to BE CAREFUL with the people you JV with. Here is that forum post. 12 There was a lot of commiserating, challenging, etc. and eventually, Mike joined the forum (word must’ve gotten out) and posted this: 13. Here are all three pages of that particular forum thread, in their entirety. 14 – 15 – 16 (I apologize – I’ve had to remove the forum posts due to copyright issues.)
Now, I hadn’t really looked at the website we were to sell WP PayMe from or the PayMe test site – why would I – they had been taken off of Mike’s servers and there was nothing there. But there was one website that Mike forgot about – and this is where his greatest mistake lie. I had this website – http://lemonadedietinfo.com – that we had been using to do the initial tests with PayMe. Eventually, for the purpose of having a dedicated test site for the PayPal API, I bought http://paymetest.com, but initially, everything was done on the lemonade site, as we came to call it.
PayMe had a special feature – a right hand sidebar containing what Mike called “Quick Help” at the top. Quick Help, essentially, were tool tips that showed up in the sidebar when a field was hovered over. A really cool idea and one that I’m sure he is using in his plugin. Below the PayMe Quick Help was another sidebar box containing promos for other products…initially it was to show a blurb about the WP PayMe affiliate program. This box was controlled at the server level – so we would be able to change it at will and promote other products there whenever we wanted to. Here is a screenshot of the initial settings page of WP PayMe after Mike changed the product’s name to WP InstantPay. 17 This small mistake is how I’ve known the “new” name of PayMe for weeks now. Mike registered the WP InstantPay domain name on April 1st – the day we had our falling out. Here is the WhoIs for wp-instantpay.com: 18 (remember when I said everything is in his wife’s name? You can see that on the WhoIs for the InstantPay domain as well as here: 19 and here: 20.
At this point, a lot of you are probably wondering why on earth I waited this long to come out with this. I had a couple reasons. First, even though Mike is a dishonest crook, he’s not an entirely stupid dishonest crook. I knew he wouldn’t let this product die – there’s simply too much money in it. Also, I banked on the fact that he wouldn’t change much within the plugin. I knew he’d add things because there were certain things that weren’t yet completed with the plugin and features he had told me were too much of a pain in the ass to implement. I wanted him to launch InstantPay with the same exact presentation and function as PayMe had/has. I was afraid that if he knew I was going to out him as the thief he is, he would change the look of InstantPay so that it didn’t look, well, identical to PayMe. I was right.
Take a look at the sales video and the instructional video and then compare the screenshots in the video with the PayMe owner’s manual from link #3. The sales video (http://youtu.be/Kt7A-gpoHF0) was done on April 12th and the instructional video (http://youtu.be/GRZFxvzMDBM) was done on April 23rd. Also, compare the screenshots of my sales video for WP PayMe: http://www.screencast.com/t/eoJCZJcA.
On April 13th, Mike (who is a moderator at the MarketCrush forum run by Jeremy Kelsall and Don VanFossen) started a thread that was a very thinly veiled attempt to…well honestly I don’t know what his intent was, but here is that entire thread. 21 I had no idea it was posted, but a business acquaintance of mine, Danielle Schaeffer, let me know it was there. Both Danielle and Anita Cross posted in response to Mike, but he deleted both of their posts. Danielle had the foresight to save what she said in response to his initial post:
I always try to be a peacemaker. I tend to believe that communication and perceptions can be very tricky beasts, and because of that, I try to give the benefit of the doubt and help to resolve conflict between others. But…
I find this passive/aggressive, hypocritical, cowardly, and very thinly veiled attempt to target someone who has no voice in here, completely unacceptable and offensive.
Most of us here are members of other forums, or have friends who are, and we are aware that there is a ‘hidden target’ here. The subject was deemed ‘not for public discussion’ by the very person trying to take it public now, only where the opposition cannot defend themselves.
Some respect for our intelligence please.
If you believe you are so right, take the fight to where your target can mount their own defense.
I cant’ say who is right or wrong, but I do know there is more to the story than what’s been posted here. What I do know of that story, added to what I am seeing here, puts my money on the open field of fair play.
[i]-Danielle[/i]
P.S. I am also highly offended by this notion that someone in financial distress is deserving of being treated like a second class citizen, having their confidences betrayed, and having their emotional well being called in to question.
After Mike deleted Danielle’s post, he emailed her this:
I deleted your post because you had to try turning it into a bashfest – you really don’t want to go there.
And she responded with:
No Mike, if I wanted to start a bashfest, my post would have been a 3 page diatribe detailing the whole story of what happened. I just insist on a level playing field and that turnabout is fair play.
Mike didn’t respond.
I don’t have the exact quote from Anita’s post but basically, it said “You didn’t create a great first impression with me.”
As far as Mike’s allegations in his “response” post after he deleted these two ladies’ posts, here’s my take, my responses in blue:
Although I would suggest to you for your own good to be very, very careful working with her – watch your back. She still owes another former “friend” of hers $1K who she conveniently “forgets” to repay when she has the money to do so.
This friend is Ken Leatherman. Back in October, I experienced some extremely unexpected financial strife. Ken gifted me $1000 with which to pay my rent and buy groceries. When I told him I wasn’t sure when I could pay him back, he told me that it was not a loan – that I could do some VA work for him in the future. I repeatedly asked Ken to give me projects when he had them, but he never did. After talking to Ken on Skype regarding Mike’s allegation that I owe him money, he again said that I don’t owe him anything. He told Mike about his giving my family the money in confidence, but has yet to ask Mike to retract his statement. I attribute this to the fact that Ken, for financial reasons of his own, is under Mike’s thumb.
To the person sending them – keep it up and I will out you, not only here, but pretty much all over the Internet. I will factually present my side along with clear evidence, starting with all of the information we found out about you and your spouse in Chicago. Did you really think I wouldn’t have a potential partner investigated carefully before committing to anything?
“The person sending them” – me – never even knew this thread existed until Danielle told me it did. And my question is – if he had me so carefully investigated and found things that he disliked, why did he go forward working on a project with me? I know why – he wanted my best ideas. And I am unsure what any of this personal information has to do with the fact that he stole the WP PayMe plugin and put a new name on it, other than creating a diversion away from his purpose. The factual side of things is being presented here, though what his perception is, is anyone’s guess. Mike has a large ego and a larger need for control over people he sees as subordinates, which is everyone.
One lesson out of this issue though is my comment about finding partners who are emotionally stable. This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when you start working with someone who shoots first and then aims later. Now this individual is in stalking mode…crying foul and giving friends a sob story, leaving out a numerous vital details and involving them in her efforts to cause problems. At the end of the day, the only ones who end up getting hurt are her friends.
Emotionally stable? Does expecting your partner to show up for a scheduled meeting qualify me as emotionally unstable? And, “in stalking mode”? “Leaving out numerous vital details”?, “efforts to cause problems”? I feel confident that the readers of this long story are not stupid and can see exactly how Mike tried to create the diversion to take away the attention from the real issue – that he stole my original idea.
What I asked Mike for on April 1st was to go forward with PayMe as partners as we had planned, and then part ways. What he has done is steal my ideas, my time, and 50% of the income from the WP PayMe n/k/a WP InstantPay project, which I am entitled to.
In closing, I’d like to say that I DO have the copyright on PayMe. Here’s a screenshot of the WP PayMe source code showing my copyright: 22 Mike himself coded that in, so how he can say that he owns the copyright…well, you decide.
The bottom line is this: WP InstantPay is stolen goods. The original WP PayMe idea, the payment flow, and 99% of the functionalities of the plugin were my idea. Mike has flounced and stolen it, because of a simple email he didn’t like, and is now claiming that it is his. This is at once ridiculous and ludicrous. He thinks that no one will challenge him. He thinks that he is “safe” because he is in Greece. He is solidly wrong on both these points. No amount of threats from him will change the fact that what he has done with our partnership and with WP PayMe is simply ethically deplorable, not to mention illegal.
Many times, over the phone, Mike told us stories about his older brother and how he used to beat Mike up and tell him he was “shit”, etc. I understand that everyone has baggage and personal problems. God knows, I’ve had my share as most of you probably have too. That’s just part of life. And while Mike has every right to this baggage, he does not have any right to personal attacks on me because he feels guilty for stealing WP PayMe. Nor does he have any right to “beat up his big brother” in proxy by beating me down in the IM community. As my associates and listmembers know, I have always tried to be very transparent with everything about my business. I didn’t come up with “antigurugirl” on my own – that was one of my former students that gave me that nickname, and it just kind of stuck.
The optimal solution is for Mike and Incansoft to be honest and cut me in on this for the 50% that I am entitled to. I know he won’t do that. I know he will come out with some very personal, over-the-top, shit-slinging response to this, and I’m prepared for that.
But if anyone of you reads this and one of you – just ONE of you – are more careful in your JV’s with other marketers because of reading this, then that is worth it to me. Think twice – protect YOURSELF first and foremost. PLEASE do this for your own good and the good of those that you’re providing for because in the end, THEY are what truly matter.
Note: I am not the only person who has been treated this way by Mike and his Incansoft staff. Read this.
UPDATE 5/21/11
I’ve just received this somewhat ominous email: 23 Do I think it’s Mike? Not really…I think it’s someone trying to start trouble by making me think it’s Mike.
I am so proud of you! You’re an amazing and talented IM with brilliant ideas. Don’t let someone like that Mike burn out your light. Infact glow brighter and burn his a**! You Rock! I am a huge supported and a friend and will always have your back.
I meant to say supporter, but I have fast acting fingers that love the enter button.
Lisa I’m so sorry to hear this story.
What a disgusting and totally unconscionable lowlife act that “Big” Mike has committed.
I have been following the development of WPPayMe for months and received all the emails from John Rogers promoting it and promising that it was “nearly there” and “coming”.
I wondered why the name change at the last minute and I figured that it was a marketing thing perhaps or that you’d been paid handsomely for your idea and source code and that the Icansoft guys we’re running with it.
Clearly… they have stolen your idea and your product and the faith and trust you placed in them also.
You’ll come through this…and Karma is a bitch,.. every dog has it’s day!
I bought WP-InstantPay thinking you were getting a slice… so sorry that’s not so.
You need to get a lawyer onto this. If you can’t afford one seek out a good pro-bono lawyer and do a deal.
You need to go viral with this…. after you get legal advice. Go big time with Social marketing, video, press-releases… heck…call up 60-minutes or CNN and get them fired up about it.
I will never buy another Big Mike product again.
You should totally finish off producing WP-PayMe and add features that “Big” Mike wouldn’t dream of even on an LSD trip!
Then release it for $10 and trash his sales!
I have some great ideas that would make WP-PayMe into a monster,… I’ll share them with you for free if you want to email me.
best wishes to you and your family,
Nate.
Nate:
I have been following the development of WPPayMe for months and received all the emails from John Rogers promoting it and promising that it was “nearly there” and “coming”.
Get copies of them to Lisa – she’s going to need all the proof she can get to nail this creep.
Everyone should remember the only way the Greeks could win the Trojan war and defeat the city was with an underhanded trick.
For centuries, the reminder has lingered in out language. . . “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.”
Hi Lisa,
Sorry to hear that you’ve also been victim to Mike and Incansoft. Unfortunately, I wish I could say this is a rare occurrence, but it isn’t.
The good thing is that people like Mike will not be able to function online for long when they keep burning people like this. You can only scam so many people before people completely stop trusting (and buying) from you, or you get locked up.
Glad to see you’re taking a stand for what is yours and for what Mike did to you.
Thanks,
Chris Elliott
I landed here in a roundabout way after you sent out an email about some new unique sites. After reading your account, one thing sticks in my mind. When Mike failed to “show up” for that phone meeting just as you were “this close”, the first thing I thought was that he did that on purpose. He pulled you to the brink and then purposely did that to make you “react”. As he proceeded to hijack your intellectual property, you were “distracted” (by Mike) thinking that your reaction was somehow to blame. No doubt about it, that guy’s a chiseler. All the talking, all the ingratiating… and then SNAP! That’s what con men do.
It sounds like you have proof, with dates, to corroborate your story. Get thee to an attorney! It may be a painful process (and it may be easier to look the other way), but you have been cheated out of a lot of money that is rightfully yours.
I wish you the best of luck with this.
Hi Lisa,
I am sorry to hear this, but this rings extremely close with a very similar story of me and a certain gentleman – a few years ago I did a JV with him and he stitched me up good and proper, after I contacted my list, after I presold my list, and after a number of them put down $100 fees for lifetime memberships – turns out he was bipolar in my opinion, and I lost a lot of credibility and friends that day.
I no longer JV… that guy ruined it for me, to say I hate him is an understatement.
I am so sorry for what has happened – I seriously SERIOUSLY think you should at least have talks with a lawyer, present what youve got – even if it costs you $100 to $500 for preliminary research, if he is going to pocket thousands he deserves to have it taken away from him and be ordered to stop selling it.
I’m serious about this – take him to the cleaners – you deserve something for the work put in, even if its a one off payment, scumbags need to know where they stand.
All I want to add to this is things do turn a corner, things will get better, especially when youve got friends around you – life has a funny way of dealing with idiots.
You are always welcome to email me if you ever need, I dont know what I can say or offer, maybe just lend a sympathetic ear, but nonetheless, at the end of the day, I hope some good comes of this for you.. chin up.
anon
BIG Mike = Big Ass!
Hi Lisa,
Two things:
1. “Big Mike” didn’t turn on you “because of a simple email he didn’t like”. Your “simple email” was only something he used to be able to pretend TO HIMSELF that he isn’t the crook he is.
2. The initial programmer that worked with you on the project might still have enough material to help you prove your ownership (if he still speaks to you…)
I agree with others who say you should get this in the hands of a lawyer if you can. And if you can’t afford it, I’ll suggest you ask for this kind of legal help in one of the Warrior Forums. And if you are told he has changed it enough to make it hard to win a case in court, do, by all means raise hell on all possible platforms so that everyone learns and be warned. Just, don’t do it for vengeance (that would be thrown right back in your face); do it for the good of the community.
Learning to trust our instincts and intuition is very difficult. Discernment is one of the most difficult tasks any human being faces in this world (and crooks know that). So, my final word is:
Please, as you take responsibility for your mistkaes, do NOT put yourself down for it. Being able to trust is an important faculty and sometimes it gets us in trouble, but it is “majorly” important in anyone’s life and… if I may say… for the global sanity of this world.
Love and courage to you,
Marie
Keep the faith, my Internet friend; You are a first-class writer and deserve to be heard.
Big Yikes!
Unreal – really, that someone with his stature and respect in IM (despite the crappy run of bots that are the bottom-feeders of non-refundable crapware) would stoop this low.
And how astute of you to say he’s beating up his older brother “in proxy” by stepping all over you…unfortunately I think that’s precisely what’s at play.
I would ask him for a refund of his software since I bought most of it early on in IM…but alas: there’s no refund (red flag #0).
Sorry to hear about the loss of income, but with your entrepreneur mind, you’ll come out aces in the end. You’re the better for it, graduating from the School of Hard Knocks Magna Cum Laude.
Lisa;
I’ve seen your evidence.
I’ve seen Mike’s responses in E1K.
These are the actions of someone who really screwed up, and doesn’t have enough resources to cover his ass. Perhaps he thought that you would just roll over and let him steamroll you; I’m proud that you put up a fight. Spread this far and wide; the truth will point to itself.
Thanks for showing his true colors.
Hi Lisa,
I’ve also received several comments (a half dozen at least) that are from Mike, his associates, or friends. They vary from calling me foul names to writing in the tone of Mike himself saying I suck as a writer. That won’t be the first response like that you receive.
Chris
Thank you for doing this. These people – SCUM – need to be outed.
Lisa,
So sorry you had to go through with this, but THANK YOU for exposing Mike for what he is. I will NEVER ever ever buy any of his products ever again.
The funny thing is, all of his previous stuff, DOES SUCK – TERRIBLY!
Incansoft = ABANDONWARE. They put out stuff that barely works at launch, and then almost never gets updated again – ALL of products suck, terribly.
Is everyone here aware that Lisa registered her Domain:
Domain Name:WP-PAYME.ORG
Created On:23-Dec-2010 15:30:40
The creep had nothing until:
Domain Name: WP-INSTANTPAY.COM
Creation Date: 01-apr-2011
Expiration Date: 01-apr-2014
Despite the fact that he claims it was “ready to go”
Dec 19, 2010!
I wish you could post your blog over at WF. Big support thread there on WP instapay. This is all kinds of wrong. I can’t believe someone could do that, but I’ve read it. Things like this almost make me second guess doing what I do. Its disgusting!
Lisa. Did you see: http://www.drunkengreek.com/ Check out the third post. B**CH eh? This is supposed to be a professional? Really? I’ve had my ups/downs with partners but that is just insane. My GOD.
Most of what I would say has already been posted by others…
But I’ll start with the E1KAD thread. He was able to join, (not refused entry) and defend himself. His defense was to say that the matter was ‘not appropriate for a public forum.’
He then went over to Market Crush, where Lisa is not permitted and made a very thinly veiled, passive/aggressive and HYPOCRITICAL post about ‘what to look out for in a partnership’ or some such crap.
Let me interject here, that the reason Lisa can’t go to Market Crush is because some COWARD in my own Skype JV Group took something Lisa said completely out of context to cause a rift between her and Jeremy, but as I was THERE for the entire conversation, I can say without a doubt that what is thought was said, was NOT as it ‘appeared’ in the cowards cut and paste job.
And also.. he’s a mod on Market Crush, so he can CRUSH any reply that opposes him, as he did to me. And he can quash opposition on his own blog as well. It’s only ‘not appropriate for the public’ according to Mike, when the ‘public’ in question has no means to oppose him because he can silence them.
Incidentally, I think someone has deleted his thread on MC now, because I looked for it the other day and couldn’t find it.
I predict you’ll see a lot more ‘deletions’ of his own words, as more and more people comment here, on my blog, on Facebook, and all the places he can’t silence us and we point out his own mistakes in covering his ass.. (read MY blog.. I blew holes in every single thing he said. Lisa had asked me to take it down when I first posted it, but has since given me permission to put it back, and I have. The link is at the end of this reply.)
I also believe that this particular ‘rift’ between Jeremy and Lisa is what was Mike’s ‘opportunity.’ He knew the rift had already hurt Lisa and like an predator, he smelled blood and saw an opportunity to attack.
Posting that it’s not for the ‘public’ and then making his post in MC was not just a thinly veiled passive/aggressive attempt at a “Cover Your Ass” Smear Campaign either.. it was an insult to the intelligence of every member of this community. This is an incestous little community and we’re all members of all the same forums (or know someone who is, which is how I came to even know about the E1KAD forum)… we knew exactly who the ‘target’ of his MC post was, regardless of his lame attempt to ‘cover.’
Word to the wise: The real “Spin Doctors” know all about the ‘smoke and mirrors’ smear campaigns and we see right through these little games.
I believe that is why he just ‘missed that meeting.’ Now, regardless of ALL of that… missing that meeting the way he did, when there was no emergency, just a flippant response of ‘guess my wife had other plans for me’ says that he thinks it not at all unprofessional to just leave someone to sit around waiting for him on a SCHEDULED appointment? Please. It would have taken all of 60 seconds to compose a Skype email that said “something came up, talk to you tomorrow.” I type 90 WPM and that line took all of 3 seconds for ME to type. But he thinks people, and women especially but we’ll get to that in a minute, are beneath him. It is unprofessional at the core, and any partner would have a right to be mad.
But again, it does seem like a ‘set up’ to make her react so he could have his ‘excuse.’ (I have also read his ridiculous blog, and I see where he claims he was going to give her $5K two days later and end it because of his ‘investigation…) He claimed he was waiting for ‘funds to clear?’ You don’t need ‘funds to clear’ to SAY… “hey, I think I don’t want to continue this, but in 2 days, I’m going to give you $5K for your idea…” (and on top of that, expect that she would give in to that mafia type extortion.. “take the 5K I’ll give you to steal your idea or I’ll steal it anyway and set your house on fire so you’ll be too busy fighting fires to do anything about ME…) Give it a break Big Mike, we’re not all as dumb as you seem to think we are. I sure as Hell am not, and I know the game better than most… especially you, because I see right through the ‘smoke and mirrors’ game YOU are trying to play here.
What in Sam Hell gives you the right to dictate to her that she HAS TO accept $5K for her idea?
So he sets her up to get mad, then calls off the deal, tells her straight out that he’s keeping the idea (by the way, I DID SEE the emails that were posted on E1KAD before the thread was deleted… told ya, well all know somebody who knows somebody…) and the things that I am about to tell you he said in his emails are TRUE.. some of them are even on his own blog….
He told her “if you would have just kept your stupid mouth shut for 2 more days you wouldn’t be in this position”…. Kept your stupid mouth shut? Seriously? That is how ABUSIVE men talk to WOMEN! Would you like the PARADE of Domestic Violence Police Reports that report the exact same words the ‘abuser’ has said to the ‘victim’?
He also made a remark on his own blog about her ‘sitting on her fat ass’ on Facebook. Again, that goes right along with the language pattern of abusive men.
(This is an area in which I have vast experience, it is not opinion, it is documented and I know this to be true because I am an advocate for ending Domestic Violence. This post is not about me,however, I just want to clarify that I’m not ‘grasping at straws here’ I’m citing facts that can truly show the ‘personality’ of the person we’re talking about here.)
His behavior and actions are in line with the patterns of abusive men and sociopathic personalites.
He tries to claim that she has ‘emotional problems.’ So that makes it ok for you to leave her sitting around waiting on you for a scheduled meeting? That makes her somehow ‘unworthy’ of a heads up that you would miss it? That makes her ‘beneath’ the common courtesy that any real professional would give to another? No, that is called ‘deflection.’ He is misdirecting away from HIS wrongdoing, by claiming ‘personality flaw’ in his victim.
NOT ONCE HAS MIKE EVER SAID “I was wrong. I should have at least let her know something came up and that I wouldn’t make the meeting.”
There was no ‘emergency’. Mike said so himself, on his own blog, that he decided to do something with his family instead.
He’s cited events that happened to Lisa, in her PERSONAL LIFE.. SIX YEARS PRIOR?
And I followed those ‘links’ he provided… seriously all they prove is that some events happened in Lisa and John’s PRIVATE LIFE… had nothing at all do to with IM in any way shape or form… but hey.. it’s more misdirection. The more dirt he can sling, the less people pay attention to HIS OWN ACTIONS….
Sociopath.
All that being said, 4 years ago, a very close friend told me that none of Mike’s software ever works… 2 years ago, another friend told me the same things.
I always thought he was ‘egotistical’ and not the ‘great programmer’ that he thinks he is, but now I think that he is a thief, a hypocrite, and a passive/aggressive abusive man.
I for one will not buy his plugin, it probably won’t work anyway, but more so because I will not help him STEAL anymore from Lisa, or anyone else.
I made this post on my own blog:
http://danischaeffer.com/blog/exposed
Please, tweet, retweet, Facebook… whatever you can to make it go viral.
I for one am shocked that Warrior Forum will allow him to promote that plug in at all when there is a question of it’s rightful ownership, and there is more than enough proof that there is definitely a question here. There is no question at all that there is a question of rightful ownership and WF needs to halt any allowance of promotion of it until the matter is resolved.
Unfortunately, I doubt that WF will without a Cease and Desist letter or ORDER from a COURT.
But consider this:
If I were to post a PLR or MRR book on there, and someone said “I think this is a PLR or MRR book that I’ve read before…” the thread would be locked and until someone could PROVE it either way.
Well Lisa says this is HER WORK… and Mike says it’s his.
So the thread should be locked, all promotion deleted, including Big Mike’s ostentatious sig banner, until it’s proven, one way or the other.
And all other forums should follow suit as well, even Market Crush, despite the conflict with Lisa and Jeremy which I truly wish they could resolve, because I do know the TRUTH about what was said that night and it is not in fact what it was made out to be.
It’s a very close suspicion of mine, that the coward who pulled that hacked copy and paste job from MY JV Group set a domino effect in play that has hurt Lisa over and over again.
I know Lisa is a trooper, and I believe she’ll come out on top, but I see this Domino effect setting her up to have to fight a lot of people who will try to take advantage of her because these people have and have gotten away with it. I know that there are people out there right now, saying “look, she had a falling out with Jeremy, she had a falling out with Mike… she’s a perfect target to scam because the more it happens TO her, the more people will think it’s her fault, that she must be the flawed one for this to keep happening to her, so we’ll get away with it.”
I’m no fan of “Big Brothers Mission To Protect Me From Me” but Mike’s reputation is fabricated and that fabrication has been covered for far too long. And I can’t perpetuate a cycle of sociopathic behavior, or all the work I do to end Domestic Violence is futile. That violence is rooted in exactly this type of ‘personality’ and the ‘society’ that lets it continue, either because they ‘don’t want to get involved’ or because it’s ‘profitable’ for them to perpetuate it.
Sorry, I was mistaken. The post in the Market Crush forum is in fact there, and back on the first page again.
Hey Lisa,
“The first shall be last and the last shall be first.” I’m confident you’ll bounce back and it will make you stronger. I applaud you for standing firm.
God Bless
Hi Lisa, I found “InstantPay” in the “Warrior Forum” and then I bought “InstantPay” two days ago, and after I read your blog I tried to report it to paypal, in the hope paypal can take action in accordance with its authority and of course so that I could get my money back.
And because I was not too good in the English language, so I include some excerpts from your writings, along with links to this blog and links to blogs that you recommend.
Has anyone bought the “InstantPay” and agreed that it was owned by Lisa, and then to report to paypal? If there is how did it go? I just reported to Paypal and still awaiting a response from Paypal.
Thanks to let us know the truth.
I just left a post on Chris Elliot’s blog about my experience with Big Mike.
I haven’t spoken AT ALL about an experience I had on a JV with a well-known marketer. He/she develops a LOT of products and has a HUGE following with a membership site. He/she recently partnered with another well-known…that’s all I’ll say.
My issue is no where close to Lisa’s, but it’s similar in that a well-known marketer takes advantage of a new marketer just because he/she can. He/she didn’t steal my product, but offered me a partnership and then told me he/she couldn’t sign a contract – he/she inferred he/she was insulted to even get a contract to sign.
He/she knew I was desperate to make money at the time. Even so, he/she didn’t follow through in a timely manner. I was counting on this deal, but that didn’t seem to matter to him/her. It finally boiled down to his/her assistant who got tired of me pushing the issue and she finally decided to discredit me. I don’t think she liked the attention I was getting from her “boss.”
I walked away from the deal and didn’t read the final emails that were sent to me from him/her. The first ones were bad enough – kept trying to show me how I was ungrateful…blah, blah, blah.
I’ve always been a business owner/builder and don’t really seek out working with others – just thinking of the issues that come up gives me the shakes! I tried JVing a little, but it’s just no-go.
You don’t know how glad I am to get confirmation. I’ve been in computers since mainframes, when there weren’t even any women in the field. I can’t tell you how surprised I was to find the same male issues exist today on the ‘net. Every time I’ve had a problem with someone’s software, they suggest it’s just me – “nobody else is having an issue.”
Now we know!
I believe every word you say based on an experience I had with a WSO from him where he was supposed to send you a niche article a day. Silly me, I thought it would be an original article a day but it was scraped content. WTF? A Google alert could do the same thing. Only a person with no morals would even think up a scam like that.
Lisa,
I’m not a regular follower of yours, but I am on your email list. I visited your site to see if there were any insights I could learn from.
Rather, I find this post. Wow.
I have to say I am somewhat stunned to find this kind of thing here. It’s really unacceptable as a business practice to “out” anyone on your business site.
I have been in bricks and mortar business for 20 years. What you have done here is very damaging to your reputation, whether you think you are right or not.
The fact is, people don’t like drama. They definitely don’t want it from a potential consultant. So, take my advice and take this stuff down. I know this was a real blow to you, but hire a lawyer and don’t let this jagoff further taint your business image.
Why? I am less inclined to buy something from you because this post gives the impression that you are not very business savvy, living hand to mouth, taking handouts, consumed with redneck style drama, and getting into arguments with business associates. Not a good image to put forth.
I don’t mean to offend you and I don’t expect that you will post this to the comments. Please take this as friendly advice from someone who simply visited your site looking for IM advice.
P.S. I like that you were able to get out of shitcago and move to the north woods!
I bought Instant Pay and am feeling bad about having bought stolen software. I’m not going to use it. I think you should continue the project on your own and as PayMe.
All’s I can say is, If I ever receive an email that say’s: Hi, this is Mike; I’m outta there. Really, this Mike sounds like a “People of the Lie” by M.Scott Peck, M.D.
I highly doubt that your experience is unique. Let’s just consider the fact that Icansoft products do not work correctly (or at all, in many cases). The advertising for Icansoft products are really nothing more than lies and blatant exaggerations. So if this is how “Big Mike” made his fortune, why would anyone want to do business with him or his cohorts at all?
Your situation is terrible, but ultimately you chose to work with a guy who produces garbage, and as a result he treated you like the garbage he’s so accustomed to.
Big surprise.
However, you clearly have a well-documented legal claim. Why there hasn’t been an addendum to your blog mentioning that you’ve hired an attorney I can’t possibly begin to understand. There are tons of good attorneys who will snap this case up and only charge you when they’ve collected – and they WILL collect.
Additionally, you should start a petition on Change.org to force Icansoft and “BIGot Mike” to start delivering on their promises. Then, market that petition out to your list, or to the emails of people that have posted comments here. People will sign the petition and pass it along via social media. I will sign it and pass it along to my 200+ FB friends and 700+ Twitter followers, etc etc etc.
You know how this works. Now get off your ass and attack!
Hi Lisa,
I feel your pain, I really do. I am an ex-employee of Mike’s and he did exactly the same to me. We had a disagreement ( after he asked me to be open and honest about something ), and within a minute my access to the sites were revoked, he removed my accounts from all his servers, did not respond to emails or Skype and then posted defamatory comments about me in the forums. This was a day before the previous months income-split was due to be paid. “Big” Mike is nothing but a bully, and a very, very nasty one at that. I would urge and encourage no-one to buy his products or do business in any shape or form with this poor and sad excuse of a man. I just wish his loyal followers in the Warrior Forum would open their eyes a little and see him for what he is.
Take care.
Jeff
Hello,
No, I’m not big MIKE. I am sorry to hear your problem. I am a developer myself and I totally see your point. I hope somehow this ends well for you and justice is made.
None the less if you want I can try and help you with the encoded sources and decode them. I can’t make any promise and I don’t insist on it. If it helps I am willing to help you
Good luck and may you never get in relations with dishonest people!
A sweet and easy revenge will be to send some off your mails about the income and ownership of Icansoft, the earnings of Rodgers and Leatherman to the Greek Tax denunciation site.
The Greeks need the income!!
Lisa, I found this post from a Google search for “Incansoft CPA Marketing PLR review” due to getting an email about their “Big Easter” sale! I then discovered Chris Elliot’s blog post from the ABlakeForum.com sharing similar horror stories!
All this has really confirmed my own suspicions about how In(the)canSoft has run things and even though I’ve purchased many of their tools, it was more for the glitter of the copy that taking he time to proving if they were actually gold! Well, that was back in my earlier (learning) days of IM.
I ALMOST purchased the WP Instant Pay plugin (http://www.wp-instantpay.com) and am glad I did not and also when I discovered that this now ($7.77) plugin appears to simply be a funnel for BM to have access to EVERYONEs products they are selling:
“PayPal Adaptive Payments is a special feature of PayPal that requires prior approval to use and the activation of an Application ID on your PayPal account. In order to facilitate this process, Incansoft and PayPal have reached an agreement whereby we will perform this review and provide an Application ID as a PayPal Channel Partner.
“A representative from Incansoft will check your sales page for the following items:
The product sold complies with PayPal’s Terms and Conditions for your region.
You have a clearly stated Refund Policy on the sales page.
Your sales page contains a link to your Privacy Policy and Terms of Use/Service.
You have link to PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy and are in compliance.”
(http://www.wp-instantpay.com/application-id/)
I’d like to know if or when you will have your WP Payment plugin available as I’d like to have the real thing and not some rip-off from a company that has a long history of thuggery!
Thanks for your forthwithness and fortitude to take a stand for the truth! God-Bless you!
Hi Lisa
Your new name should be….Go Get Him Girl!
You are absolutely correct the way you are dealing with this, expose, show your proof and the truth shall out!, all the response is huff & puff and words that dont mean anything, as anyone can clearly see.
It is interesting that everything may be in the wifes name, that normally means that a person certainly knows they are flying close to the wind, so when someone sues them or takes them to court, they are protected!! Makes one think hey?
Anyway keep up the good work, go viral and kick these scammers into touch, you will get tons of support as there are still loads of genuine people out there.
All the very best.
Mike
Hello Lisa
I am new, well been at this for a year or so and came across this article. I need to tell you if you come out with a product I would certainly buy. If you have anything to offer us as IM’ers, I will certainly follow. As for this other guy Mike, don’t understand how they can call him “big” BUT by spreading the word believe me he will pay. I am certain its already had a big impact on him financially. I will never but a product from him or his affiliates period! All of us have a story or two, pick your head up and keep moving like I said I would be proud to follow you with what ever project you get involved with or CREATE. You would be great at developing your own brand! Go for it!
Steve
Tiny Mike sucks. He can suck it! I bought wp instant pay and it doesn’t work!